In light of all the excitement surrounding speculation that Oprah Winfrey may run for President, we are re-presenting an interview John Stonestreet conducted back in 2012 with New York Times columnist Ross Douthat.

How is it that Americans are so attracted to this famous TV celebrity—so much so that they would put her in the White House? John thinks that part of the answer can be found in two books: Neil Postman’s “Amusing Ourselves to Death” and Douthat’s book “Bad Religion: How We Became a Nation of Heretics.”

Here are John Stonestreet and Ross Douthat, talking about “Bad Religion.”